Council members, landlords, debate minimum housing

In a rare evening meeting, the Henderson City Council’s Community Development Committee and the Community Development Advisory Committee met at 7:00 p.m. yesterday in City Council chambers.

The audience of approximately 40 was more typical of a full City Council meeting than that of a Council committee.

Community Development Committee Chair Garry Daeke

Garry Daeke, the chair of the Community Development Committee, began the meeting by stating his belief that compromise on the issue is “a gain for everybody”.

Daeke pointed out to the audience that only three of the Council members present at the meeting could actually vote, although he did not anticipate a vote during the meeting.

The chair indicated that he wanted to hear from “you” tonight, referring to the audience.

Daeke told the committees and the audience that the agenda for the meeting would be to have Erris Dunston of the City’s Planning & Community Development Department walk committee members through the Minimum Housing Inspection Checklist currently in use by the City’s Code Compliance department when it conducts inspections. He reminded members and the audience that at the last meeting eight or nine “tweaks” or changes to the current ordinance were discussed by City staff.

Daeke stated that other items would be brought up that the City is proposing to add to the checklist.

Planning & Community Development Director Erris Dunston

Dunston began her presentation by speaking about how the exterior of a rental unit is first examined upon inspection for zoning compliance, exterior nuisances, and the presence of the proper garbage container.

Community Development Advisory Committee member and Rodgers Group Property Manager Henry Falkner

Community Development Advisory Board member Henry Falkner quickly interrupted Dunston’s presentation, asking her who was responsible for providing the garbage container.

Dunston responded that the City did not care who supplied the container, but that it was the landlord’s responsibility to make sure that the requirement is met.

“So it’s the landlord’s responsibility?” Falkner asked.

“If you choose to look at it that way,” Dunston responded.

Falkner stated that he did not think that the Community Development Advisory Committee had had time to review and comment on the checklist.

Daeke responded that Falkner had a good point, and that the meeting was a good opportunity to “sit and listen”.

Falkner replied that the the Community Development Advisory Committee has to have some kind of input.

Daeke told Falkner that it would. He went on to say that he did not want to “bog down” every issue [Dunston] comes up with.

Dunston went on to describe the inspection process for the exterior features of a rental property.

Community Development Committee member Mary Emma Evans

After Dunston reviewed the exterior feature portion of the checklist, Community Development Committee member Mary Emma Evans asked her if she was saying that when a house is rented out a garbage container should already be at the house, and if the landlord is responsible.

Dunston responded in the affirmative.

Evans asked if landlords would have to provide new containers.

Dunston replied that it may be the landlord or the tenant. She went on to say that if the property being inspected is in the task force area, the required trash container would be required before the house passes inspection.

Falkner stated that there was “lots of room for discussion”. He reminded the committees that the Minimum Housing Ordinance was written in 1970 and never enforced in 37 years.

“There has to be some type of discussion,” Falkner said.

Landlord William Devon stated from the audience that sometimes rules are made without serious consideration. He said that he puts screen doors on his houses and they get “kicked in”. He also said that garbage pails are not needed without garbage racks because dogs turn garbage pails over.

Corey Williams, the Director of the Code Compliance Department, continued reading through the checklist’s guidelines for interior features of the property, noting that staff recommended adding the kitchen floors be made of a substance impervious to water as well as bathroom floors.

Staff also recommended a minimum ceiling height for half of each room of seven feet, six inches.

Falkner stated that he thought the height requirement should be for “habitable” rooms.

Habitable rooms are defined as all rooms excluding hallways, bathrooms, water closets, storage closets, laundries, and foyers.

Falkner took exception to the ceiling height requirement proposed by the City, reminding members that Henderson is a “mill town” and that in many cases bathrooms were added to houses after initial construction. He asked what would happen when the house was condemned.

“There are lots of things going on there that need to be discussed,” Falkner said.

Dunston told members that a lot of people were having problems with low ceilings and light fixtures.

Community Development Advisory Committee member and Henderson-Vance County Human Relations Commission Chair Janice Jeffreys

Janice Jeffreys, a member of the Community Development Advisory Committee, told members that they “can discuss ordinances”, but that they were not going to have anyone stay in houses “you would not stay in”. She said that she wanted the houses to be safe. She stated a concern for enforcement and how that would be conducted.

Jeffreys added that landlords are responsible for screening tenants.

Falkner asked Daeke if the Council was ready to vote on the issue.

Daeke stated that he had not set a timetable.

Falkner reiterated that he wanted to “have a discussion”.

Williams then reviewed the plumbing requirements specified in the current Mimimum Housing Ordinance. Dunston reviewed utility prerequisites, noting that staff had recommended that houses equipped with central heat and air conditioning be exempt from the requirement that screens be placed on all of the windows.

Falkner stated that most houses have “$100 air conditioners” in the windows. He asked if a tenant were using a window air conditioner and did not have a screen if the house would pass inspection.

Dunston stated that the window has to have a screen.

Williams added that the window unit would not be there at the time of inspection, since the tenant would not yet have moved into the rental unit.

Falkner said that the tenant “had probably thrown the screen away”.

Dunston suggested a possible solution by pointing out that since the air conditioner is portable, it can be removed and the screen can be replaced during the time of the inspection.

Continuing through the checklist, Dunston noted another recommended staff change in the ordinance, this one forbidding the use of kerosene heaters and a primary heating source. She noted that kerosene heaters that are vented to the outside and are fueled by outside tanks may be used.

When asked about kerosene heaters and their contributions to house fires, Fire Chief Danny Wilkerson said, “We don’t like the portable ones.”

Wilkerson told the committees that the heaters require at 36-inch clearance and that “we don’t often see that”.

Falkner asked what would happen if a tenant chooses not to have his or her gas turned on for the winter and chooses to heat with kerosene instead.

Williams responded that the owners would be notified, a hearing would be held, and 90 days would be given for abatement.

Falkner said that it was “unbelieveable” how many [tenants] don’t have their gas connected.

Marquita Vann, a member of the Community Development Advisory Board, said that the matter of natural gas connection should be in the lease. She said that it is a landlord responsiblity.

Henderson City Council member Lynn Harper told members and the audience that she could not advocate anyone living in a house with an unsafe heating system.

“How can we sleep at night?” Harper asked.

Harper suggested helping the landlord by enforcing some type of penalty on the tenant for the use of portable kerosene heaters.

Daeke agreed that it was a health issue.

Falkner stated that there are “going to be a lot of homeless”.

Jerri, a member of the audience who identified herself as a tenant and asked to be named on Home in Henderson by only her first name, asked how the City would help “us” get our gas turned on. She then challenged Harper to help her get her gas turned on.

Harper replied that she would help.

“Can we put this in black and white?” Jerri asked?

Harper assured her that she “had said she would”.

Jerri went on to say that not all landlords in Vance County are “slumlords”. She told the committee members that they were “talking about things on the outside looking in”.

The Henderson tenant said that she had contacted “lots of places” for help and that no one has money.

“I can say Mr. Rogers fixes his houses,” Jerri assured the group.

Daeke responded that the committee was not trying to propose something that’s “not workable”. He said that it was trying to have a minimum standard that works for everyone.

After Williams described the inspection process for electrical systems, Falkner indicated his disagreement with the term “electrical code”. It was later revealed that if the eletrical system of a house were damaged, it would be incumbent upon the landlord to bring the system up to current standards.

Williams noted that staff had recommended that battery-operated smoke detectors be included in the ordinance.

Dunston added that it had also been recommended that house numbers be posted in contrasting colors upon houses and that they be visible from the street. She also noted a recommendation that the fee for inspections after the first, free inspection be raised from the 1970 amount of four dollars to $50.

Before offering remarks, Evans quipped that she would “look for her name on Home in Henderson tomorrow”. She went on to say that she was in the middle of the discussion. She said that she had been accused of helping landlords, but that she helps anyone who helps others. She said that people would be “on the street” if not for landlords.

Evans stated a need to put a provision into the ordinance for the temporary use of portable kerosene heaters. She said there was a need for “a sensible provision for needs”. The Community Development Committee member indicated that there should be an “in-between ordinance that won’t hit the landlord or the tenant”.

Falkner said that there were a lot of things “being pushed at us and pushed down our throats without proper discussion”. He said that no one on the Community Development Advisory Committee knew about the meeting.

Before the meeting, Marquita Vann indicated to this reporter that she had received several telephone calls from Henderson residents advising her to attend the meeting.

Daeke indicated that members had been notified by email and that an ad had been run in the newspaper.

Home in Henderson ran a short article on the meeting date, time, and location on April 20.

Falkner said that there needs to be a “workshop” to “iron out these issues”. He said that the issues were “a long way from being resolved”.

“There are some things on here that should be done,” Falkner said.

Daeke said he would see about a work session.

Falkner complained that his committee had not been given an opportunity to advise.

Harper asked how long the ordinance had been on the books.

Dunston responded that it had been on the books for 37 years.

Harper stated that it was “nothing new”. She said that it had been discussed since she was on the Council. She said that she did not like the suggestion that it was a “surprise”. She told members that the City Manager needs an answer on this issue for the City budget which will be up for discussion in late May.

Council member Elissa Yount added to Harper’s comments, stating that on November 23, 2003, Gray Smith put landlords on notice that they needed to follow the minimum housing code.

Yount informed members that there was an agency that could be accessed through Franklin-Vance-Warren Opportunities that could provide heating assistance.

She also addressed the state’s Fair Housing Act, indicating that there are rules by which the tenant must abide. She said that the landlord can present these rules to the tenant and have the tenant sign them.

Diane Barbario, a member of the Community Development Advisory Committee and also the chair of Clean Up Henderson stated that the Minimum Housing Ordinance has already been used for inspections, and therefore there is precedent for it.

Henderson resident Eugene Burton

Henderson resident Eugene Burton said that although the ordinance has been on the books for years, the Council has been “three-fourths real estate dealers or related business”. He said that the Council was now trying to straighten out what should have been straightened out years ago, and that they were getting “a lot of flack”. He intimated that landlords should be thanking them for the opportunity to “give back”.

Joel Rice of the Five County Mental Health Authority told the committees that 80% of his consumers have housing issues based on affordability. Although he believes the discussion should move forward, he also stated that there should also be a discussion about bringing in resources for safe, attractive, affordable housing. He said he would be willing to participate in that discusion.

Rice asked the committees if they had looked at other inspection checklist forms. He characterized the City’s checklist as “convoluted”.

Landlords’ Attorney and Henderson landlord Mike Satterwhite

Attorney Mike Satterwhite, who is representing landlords to the Henderson City Council, said that he had spoken to several Council members individually and told them that the landlords appreciate what they’re doing. He said that the landlords do not object to their purpose, but are concerned about getting from the purpose to implementation.

Satterwhite requested that City Attorney John Zollicoffer be asked to study the legislative history of the Minimum Housing Ordinance and determine if there was any discussion of grandfathering certain houses in, such as “mill” houses. He also requested that Zollicoffer be consulted as to the consequences for the City if the City condemns a house. Specifically, he asked if the City would have to compensate the property owner.

The attorney also asked that Zollicoffer be consulted regarding City liability after an inspection has taken place. He reported that the City of Wilson had been sued after a safety inspection.

Stating the he is a landlord, Satterwhite said that he hires a home inspector after acquiring a property and fixes it before putting a tenant in. After noting the presence of several licensed contractors, he said that he did not think there was anyone in the room capable of doing the inspection currently called for in the Minimum Housing Ordinance. He said that “someone qualified” would have to be hired.

Satterwhite claimed that the inspector would have to go onto the roof, under the house, and would have to have instruments to check outlets. He estimated that it would take “about a day” for each house.

Satterwhite claimed that the inspector had to be able to tell him what to do to get a tenant in there.

“I have to know exactly what he saw,” the attorney said.

Satterwhite also claimed that the hearing process would occupy Dunston and Williams and make them unavailable to perform inspections.

The landlords’ representative argued that, for the landlord, “time is money”. He said that most landlords have “obligations” on their property.

Satterwhite said that he doesn’t “think anyone is getting rich”.

Satterwhite reiterated his desire from the last Community Development gathering for an informal meeting.

The attorney then invited the committee and the City Council to look at its own issues with its property, such as the Armory, the sewer system, and the former police station. He said the City needs to “lead the way” as stewards of its own property.

Jeffries responded to Satterwhite, stating that if the landlords ask for the right of review and to suggest alternatives, what about the tenants?

Daeke responded that the committee was trying to hear all voices.

City Manager Jerry Moss reminded Satterwhite of the process that was involved in relocated the residents of Beacon Light Apartments. He said that during that process, he was amazed to discover that the Frankin-Vance-Warren Opportunities HUD inspector had inspected all of Vance County’s Section 8 housing before anyone moved in. He asked how that one person did all of the HUD inspections.

Moss noted that the inspector is responsible for all Section 8 inspections in Vance and Warren counties.

Satterwhite maintained that quality inspections could not be done in a brief time.

Moss asked if Section 8 landlords were getting appropriate inspections in a timely manner.

Jerri called out from the audience, “I know they weren’t.”

Moss noted that 63 families had been living in Beacon Light, and that those units were being inspected. Moss said that the units were “not occupiable by my dog”.

Satterwhite asked if they “were not occupiable by your dog” before or after the tenant moved in.

“Before,” Moss said.

Satterwhite denied personally owning any Section 8 housing.

Harper stated that she appreciated Satterwhite bringing the concerns of the landlords. She added that she thought they “would have had more teeth” if they had come before Christmas.

Harper noted that Daeke had waited six weeks for a landlord response.

Harper indicated that Henderson would be sure to contact other cities with active code enforcement to figure out how to do it, and she thanked Satterwhite for the suggestion.

The Council member defended the Council on the matter of the sewer, stating that it was being addressed. After consulting Chief Wilkerson as to the current state of the Armory, she said that it was not dilapidated.

Satterwhite suggested that other cities be consulted as to the qualifications their inspectors have and how long inspections take.

Harper stated that people in Henderson deserve the same liveability as people in Wilson, Durham, and Fayetteville.

Satterwhite countered that landlords deserve the same quality of inspection.

Harper noted to Satterwhite that the City provides someone to look at rental property after the tenant leaves, something a landlord would normally have to pay someone to do. She told Satterwhite, “you can take that off your overhead”.

The remark drew general laughter.

Landlord Charles Bowman then stood and related problems he had encountered with Section 8 housing. He said that Section 8 inspections come in “for a number of reasons”.

Bowman related that the gas company now wants $700 for a deposit to turn on the gas.

Because Bowman offers Section 8 housing, he must provide stoves and refrigerators. He said that he has had problems with thefts of the appliances. He expressed dismay at his ability to keep a garbage can.

“I have good tenants and a whole lot of bad tenants.”

Bowman related a story of a tenant who disassembled cabinets to raise chickens, and of another tenant who raised rabbits under the house.

There was a discussion of non-refundable fees for changeovers of water and electric service from tenant to landlord when the tenant quits the property.

Barbario stated that HUD requirements are more stringent that what is proposed in the Minimum Housing Ordinance. She also stated that there was a “skewed” representation of tenants.

She told landlords that if tenants were destroying their property that they had a right not to rent to a person again, and that they had a right to a day in court like everyone else.

She also stated that landlords had a right to not be “in the business” if they were not making any money.

Bowman responded that one could not walk away “if you owe $2 million in real estate”.

Jerri stated that she was a tenant and was staying where she could afford to stay. She said that it seemed to her that the committee wanted landlords to “push down houses and build them according to your standards and that isn’t right”.

Jerri then confronted Yount regarding a letter to the editor that appeared in the Sunday, April 22 Daily Dispatch. In the letter, a Henderson resident Cathy Kellogg Dickerson claimed that Yount had stated that the Certificate of Occupancy would have the effect of eliminating “undesirables”.

Jerri indicated by example that just because a landlord has “undesirables” in a house does not mean that he or she rented to them.

The Henderson tenant then asked Yount what she meant by the term “undesirables”.

Yount responded that what she meant was what Jerri had said she was afraid of at the last City Council meeting. In further discussion, the terms “drug dealers” and “prostitutes” were used.

Jerri suggested to Yount that she say what she means.

Daeke then asked that remarks be confined to the ordinance.

A Henderson homeowner indicated that he or she had built a house in a “low income” area two years ago and that he or she had had considerable trouble with a neighboring house that had been rented to a drug dealer. The homeowner indicated that there is gunfire at night.

“To me, that’s undesireable,” the homewoner said.

Jeffreys said that landlords need to screen tenants. She also said that the City has a checklist.

“What are we going to do?” Jeffreys said.

Falkner expressed dismay that vacant properties would be tracked by water service disconnections. He said there was “no possible way” all the properties could be inspected based on the number.

Falkner said that “a whole new empire of city enforcement” was being created.

Local activist Deryl von Williams, who is also a landlord, stated a need to start investing in neighborhoods.

Von Williams stated that when people can’t afford to pay, they will destroy property.

“People who live badly act badly,” von Williams said.

Von Williams said it was fair for landlords to ask “Where do you work?” She indicated that bringing in tenants without legitimate means of support was not fair to everybody around and brought down the neighborhood.

Landlord Curtis White ended the meeting by relating a story of a 75 year-old woman who he had lived in a house for 40 years. A widow, she never worked, does not drive, and needs to live somewhere that she can walk to the store. Living on a meager income, she uses her money for food and medicine.

The woman found a way to move into West Ridge Apartments, which White owns.

According to White, he has moved four or five widows in similar circumstances into his apartments. He has purchased their homes in an owner-financing deal where each month he cuts them a check out of which they pay him rent.

White told members that their houses support them for the rest of their lives.

However, according to White, he was unable to purchase this particular woman’s home because it did not meet the requirements of the Minimum Housing Ordinance. He said that the bathroom did not qualify because of the window requirement, and that the ceilings were too low.

“It’s not always the landlords,” White said.

Daeke adjourned the meeting at 9:08 p.m.